tRP: Police Quest 2

[Karen]

Yeah, sure, saved you some time there
perspective can be tiring at times, putting in all points and deciding what type to go for, like 1, 2 or  3  point perspective, 3 point can really be a lot of work,, and fourth is  like the fisheye/cryctal ball perspective thingie, kinda insane if you do it manually by hand,, I know from personal experience!:)
If you want to be really picky (not that anyone would notice really!)you could resize the scene objects in regards to the horizon line, like your lampposts (they look fine), but as they move away they could be a bit smaller,,  I did some editing again to show you, hope you don’t mind!:)

Plus, if something sticks up above the horizon line like one of the lampposts, it’s very easy to calculate the placement and size of the others when on the same plane, cause they're always the same length above the horizon if so, like shown on the first pic (I’m sure you know this, just wanted to point it out if you had forgotten)

Don’t think of  vanishing points like they have to be somewhere in particular, instead think of the horizon and vanishing points as helping guides or reference points, (who cares if things are little ‘incorrect’, reality is full of inconsistencies!),, when I do pics I put in vanishing points all over the place,, to measure things, rotate things etc,, it’s only when placing final objects you need to refer to the one or two fixed vanishing points.
Just be careful about placing vanishing points t too close to each other or they will warp the perspective.

For different heights, like a hill etc, use different horizon lines,, that way it’ll be much, much easier to know where to place things on that plane, and you can have an unlimited amount of horizon lines in a pic.

Another helpful tip is circles, when you’re  plotting in something (like from two vanishing points, 2 point perspective), its very easy to rotate the block/item if you paint a circle inside the plotted coordinates (like shown in fig5),,

and if you’re doing a pathway, you should first plot in where you want the path to start and end and create two lines from a point on the horizon where the path leads to,, and then the beginning of the path, the breadth, then find the middle of this ‘triangle path’ and paint a straight or curved path depending on the thickness of path coordinates (fig1)

 If you’re doing a path with tiles you can easily calculate how much they shrink inwards to the horizon by finding the middle values and drawing a line from each bottom corner (fig2),,  but ultimately I find it’s much easier (and quicker!) to just draw a circle and then resize it within the path (breadth/thickness) to find where the tiles start and begin. (fig 1)

and if it’s curved, the path, just find the middle part of the little triangles on the sides of the circles and plot in the lines there (fig4),,

after a while you’ll instinctively see/visualize the circles in your mind, without having to draw them manually (I also plotted a curved path in the last pic in the ill. to show you a curved path with tiles accordingly)

Glad to be of help!, and looking forward to seeing more of your work.

[Karen]

btw, the ill.of the rotation was pretty bad so not to confuse you, here's what I mean (you just draw a circle and then use the coordinates within that circle to quickly rotate things in 3d), using a square block first and then adding detail etc,, but again use them as guides not like a definite blueprint (or else perspective could make anyone a bit mental

[theRedPress]

Ok that makes sense.  The one part I'm really struggling with is understanding the circles in relation to the curved path.  Or more specifically, how to know the size of the next circle in the curved path.   

I can see that you could be really tedious and turn each section, move it up or down onto another horizon line to mirror the inclines and declines and all that.  But you mentioned something about the middle part of the little triangles of the circle (the four outer ones, yes?) and how you could just quickly go from circle to circle by doing fast measurements there.  That's what I want to do, but I'm not understanding where to measure.

Is it like when you double the squares leading back, because when I rotate the block, or the one after it, the whole extending thing becomes confusing to me.

This is why I mentioned maybe accepting that the sidewalk was either a: laid down by an amateur (because it was drawn by me, so that makes sense), or b: they're all warped over time.  Haha, I accept defeat on this one, I think.   I've got the width correct now, as it goes back it's gone up so I kept it a little bit wider as it meets the fountain.   But using the basic perspective has really made it look nicer, so I went and finished painting it in proper. =D

My next problem is going to be composition, because I'm doing the Lytton Locker room and I cannot find a decent composition to show the lockers, the bathroom stalls, sink/mirrors and the showers all in the same frame.   I've tried several, I even did the PQ1 background in a proper 1 point perspective off slightly to the right with the same horizon....it looks cool but it's kind of boring.

Thank you so much for your help, Karen, I really appreciate it. =]

[Karen]

yeah, you can't with only the circles, but they make it much easier without having to rotate every (darn) tile,, that would be a lot of work.

If you want to get a completely correct size of the tiles as they move into the horizon, use two reference lines from the horizon like in the pic attached, and divide that with the half on half method shown,, then visualize or put in some circles in the path and get the correct angle and division of the tiles.

If you upload the sketch (of the locker room) maybe I can take a look at it

[theRedPress]

yeah, you can't with only the circles, but they make it much easier without having to rotate every (darn) tile,, that would be a lot of work.

If you want to get a completely correct size of the tiles as they move into the horizon, use two reference lines from the horizon like in the pic attached, and divide that with the half on half method shown,, then visualize or put in some circles in the path and get the correct angle and division of the tiles.

If you upload the sketch (of the locker room) maybe I can take a look at it

Awesome, that cleared all my confusion up.  There were just a lot of lines and so many subjects I think at one time, and just seeing that bit there made it all click.   I'm still having trouble visualizing how I want that path to go, or rather, how the land is actually moving about beneath it....but for now I think it passes and so I'm glad.


Definitely will upload a couple of basic layouts here for that locker room soon, going to try out a third option quick.

[Karen]

For scene setups it's great to have a 3d app,, that way you can just plot in some boxes and rotate the scene from different angles,
I couldn't resist doing a quickie of the locker room/bathroom in CInema4d,, I added some textures and lights for decoration,, but it's just a layout really,, you can sketch over it or whatever, maybe it can give you some ideas,, (and it's fun too cause you don't have to worry about perspective and calculating everything),

it's very crude though, the sinks and everything are all basically boxes in different sizes, but this is a great way to set up and create the layout for a 3d or 2d scene,

[Lorem ipsum]

As for 3d apps, I use a number of them.  Daz3d, Bryce3d, Blender, Wings3d, and a lot more.  It's looking a lot better, karen.  I can't wait to see tRP's when it's done!

[Karen]

Yeah, I used Wings a lot, I really got into 3d using that app, terms like vertices and polygons and hexahedrons meant nothing to me before I started using WIngs (completely free),

Bryce is great too, one of the very first landscape apps,, and beautiful water effects ( I think they're up to version 6 now,, though I would recommend Carrara instead, it's got much more addons, freeware and other cool things, plus Carrara is a much better, more stable app overall (almost the same price),

best thing is, 3d apps will help your drawing skills tremendously, it's kinda like a brain booster,, it starts to think in 3d!

and you don't always have to 'know' the math behind perspective, proportion and using color,, after some time most artists just feel their way or go with the hunch, (or you could just bring your sketch into 3d to tweak or 'verify' the perspetive)

(if you can, try to get hold of CInema4d, it does everything,, and it's a breeze to learn!, that app is the single most genius app for 3d wannabees), it's a super stable platform from where you can use a multitude of different apps and programs,, then bring it all into Cinema to organize, align (texture) and render it, cause it's got one if the fastest and nicest renderers around, or just bake the textures for super fast animation output, (even apps like Maya and 3DsMax can't compete when it comes to speed, you could argue the light quality, but it's pretty darn close!

[Lorem ipsum]

Yeah, I used Wings a lot, I really got into 3d using that app, terms like vertices and polygons and hexahedrons meant nothing to me before I started using WIngs (completely free),

Yeah, in fact, it's opensource.  It's a very good start for if you want to learn about 3d stuff.

Bryce is a good landscape one.  As for a game engine, I'd use Blender for a 3d game engine.  It's easy if you are good at 3d and learn python.  Anyway, Cinima4d is expensive.  But I got a trial or something a while back and I loved it.  And then you can make your whole scene, and then paint it from there.  That's probably a really good way to make a good background.  And for 3d people, I use Daz.  Thanks for that tip a while ago, karen.